Civil Forfeiture Act (Bill 13)
October 20, 2005
Civil Forfeiture Act (Bill 13)
Second Reading Debates [click to view video]

R. Cantelon: I'm happy to speak to this bill today, Bill 13. I think the number is perhaps pernicious, and I hope it will bring bad luck for all those involved in criminal activity and that they'll lose what they'd hoped to gain by their proceeds.

Madam Speaker, it gives me particular pleasure today to follow a colleague, also from Nanaimo, and to speak right after he has spoken. I want to tell you that on a personal note, if he has been characterized as a wealthy lawyer, that is not true. I would like to confirm that indeed his practice is a humble practice, as he so puts forward — although considering his sartorial display today, which is also well known in the community…. I don't know if that adjective has ever been applied broadly to him among those who know him.

Nevertheless, I do respect his words. He's a very learned lawyer, and I think his interpretations and concerns of the act are well put, although I would comment, firstly, with respect to his admonitions against the member for Langley regarding the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, that certainly one of the freedoms this bill does address is: criminals do not have the freedom and will not have the freedom to profit from unlawful activities.

This is an outstanding bill. It's an issue that the previous speaker has alluded to as being of great concern in our community in Nanaimo. It's actually at the top of mine in the current election. It's the greatest concern despite other things that are happening in the community. We talk loosely, I think, about organized crime, and very often crime is not really as organized as we'd like to believe.

Criminals today are becoming very sophisticated at shifting the blame and sort of putting it on to underlings to carry out their illegal activities without any direct connection or without any trail of evidence that can be followed up to get the people at the top. It becomes more and more difficult for the police and investigators to get to the actual source of the crime.

But no question, very often the evidence — not necessarily the display of wealth, but the evidence — that a crime has occurred is very, very obvious. That really is where the immediate focus will be. I know that the member opposite for Powell River–Sunshine Coast has worried about the most vulnerable people, and I can assure you, to the member, that au contraire, this is to protect the most vulnerable and to restore to them what may have been taken from them through criminal and perhaps fraudulent activity.

I certainly have great faith in the justice system that this will not be "whim" — the word that was used by the member opposite. I do not consider the deliberation of the courts whimsical. I'm sure they will take a very serious approach when they examine the balance of probabilities in coming to their decisions.

It isn't just going to be the display of wealth that triggers it. It will take more than a raised eyebrow before the courts would proceed to seize property. There has to be clear evidence that unlawful activity happened, and I have to say and report, regretfully, that there's ample opportunity for that in our community.

During roughly an 18-month period our city council, of which I was a member previously, seized or shut down something like 79 grow ops. You walk into a situation like that, and there's no question that illegal activity has been going on. However, often our hands are tied. The hands of the police are tied in trying to prosecute against it. As I mentioned earlier, it's a very tangled web of deceit that the perpetrators put on us to make it difficult to make prosecutions. But this is an opportunity, then, to seize the assets. If it can be shown that the owners of the property or the premises were involved in these criminal activities, then the property can be seized.

Certainly, however, I appreciate the concerns of the members opposite, but it's also clear in the act that those who are not involved will be deemed to be free. Their assets won't be seized. Mortgage companies, even co-owners of property that might be seized, will not have their part of the property seized, but if it is clearly an unlawful activity, then we can proceed.

There was a recent incident north of Nanaimo, in my riding, that I'd like to describe to you and that I think is typical of what might happen. In the process of their activities, the police found a home that was being used to create ID fraud. In the investigation, they found all sorts of evidence of the mechanisms of creating false identifications.

Identity theft, as many members of this House well know, is one of the most dangerous things that threatens all of us. Your identity can be stolen, your credit cards can be created, and you can have your reputation damaged and your assets spent by others.

Well, here's a clear case. These people were about one thing, and that was to try and perpetrate frauds among our citizens. If it can be found, for example, that the owners were the principal residents and so forth and the connection of the crime can be made to the property, we have an opportunity to seize assets. There may have been bank accounts associated with it. While I respect the member opposite's comment that we can't always necessarily achieve convictions, certainly, I'm sure prosecution may follow, and there was clear evidence left behind in this case, and in many others, that it was an unlawful activity.

That's what this bill focuses on: seizing the proceeds of unlawful activity. The member opposite mentioned, too, that it could be beyond that, and I agree. He mentioned that sometimes they forget where they made their money, and so once we establish that the money trail leads to other investments — perhaps in the community, perhaps in the stock market — this bill gives us the opportunity to pursue those assets and seize them. I think that's an outstanding opportunity. We may not be able to prosecute and grab the chickens, but we can pick up the golden eggs that they're trying to store and hide, and retrieve them.

This bill has been very well received in Nanaimo, I have to say. As I mentioned, it's one of our great concerns. In the city of Nanaimo they've taken actions to shut down crack houses, even to destroy homes that have been used extensively for grow ops, so this puts one more tool in the hands of the RCMP and the collective effort that's being made in the community to address the concerns of crime.

I know it will be very, very well received in the community. In fact, the mayor has commented on it already. His Worship Mayor Korpan has certainly enthusiastically supported the bill. If I may read his quote into Hansard: "This constitutes major progress in crime-fighting, and I will be asking council to direct application to this new tool to benefit any Nanaimo citizens harmed by crime."

I also spoke with Councillor Manhas who is involved now with downtown revitalization. He, too, indicated his support for the bill and complimented the Solicitor General on bringing this bill forward. It's very, very timely for our citizens and our communities.

I would like to briefly touch on the fact of where this money goes. I think that the judge has reasonable latitude, but the priorities are clear. Firstly, the compensation of those eligible victims is (a). So here we have an opportunity to act in a restorative way to compensate people who have been victimized by the crime directly. It also is a deterrent.

The member for Langley had mentioned earlier that displays of wealth…. We talk about Vipers and so on and so forth, but very often people go to bars with the rings and the jewellery and the gold. They may well be known, and they may well be able to be associated with unlawful activity and, therefore, may come under the scrutiny of this law. But the average younger person looks at this perhaps not as the spoils of unlawful activity but more as the fruits of success.

We have to act and impress that this is not the way to go — that this is not a role model we wish to hold up to people, that we take from them these trappings of unlawful activity — and remove them. This certainly will be a deterrent.

I mentioned that there's a multilayered level of crime, and that's one of the first areas younger people get involved in. They're given certain bonuses for participating in unlawful activities, and here's an opportunity to take those things back and remove them. All of a sudden a life of crime is not so attractive if you're not able to keep the proceeds of unlawful activity.

This is another important aspect of this bill: to deter our youth from getting involved in crime, to make a clear statement to them that crime doesn't pay, that it isn't worth it to get involved. Even though we may not be able to obtain convictions or even seek convictions, we can remove the incentive to get involved in these activities.

We've heard from our police departments, which are working very diligently in the area of crime prevention, that the judges' hands are tied in many cases, and this certainly will give them more latitude. The bill gives latitude to also remediate the effects of unlawful activities and pay the cost of doing this, which I hope will address some of the member opposite's concern that we may not have enough funding in this. If the judge is effective, certainly there will be enough funding to proceed. Also, other prescribed purposes give the judge some latitude in how he may enact the law.

I think this is an excellent bill. We want to remove the windfalls that may be perceived to be coming to people from unlawful activities. I know the community in Nanaimo, where I live, and the member previous speaking to this bill, will enthusiastically support this bill, because they don't feel that enough is being done.

Now, finally, we're getting it done. I won't take my full time here, but I'd like to echo the previous speakers in my remarks that, indeed, we're not pushing this ahead. This is long overdue. The government is often accused of not acting fast enough, never mind too fast. I think this bill will then go to committee where it will receive the suggestions of the members opposite, and perhaps some from this side too, as to how some of their concerns can be mitigated.

Certainly, we want to move forward with all due but careful speed on this bill. It's going to be a very important bill and a very important tool in deterring and fighting unlawful activities.
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